Make Lemonade

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Posts by Make Lemonade

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  48

  The Apostasy Within

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the latest watchtower (july 15, 2014, page 14, paragraph 10) it says; today, jehovahs people are not often confronted with apostasy within the congregation.

  still, when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.. so, not often, but occasionally jws are exposed to apostasy within the congregation, and they are instructed to decisively reject it.

  as we all know, the vast majority of the apostasy they are exposed to comes from the governing body.. i am meeting up soon with an old friend from the 1970s who i havent seen for decades, who is still an active jw, and who would really like to hear what i think about things.

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  Make Lemonade

  wasblind: . Well said
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  84

  Want to know why people accept evolution ?

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you have questions about or want to understand evolution?

  it is a difficult concept to communicate and so if it is not explained well , it is understandable that we would dismiss it.. i sincerely want to talk with people who want to learn more or see what all the fuss is about.

  we are all learning and increasing our knowledge all the time and it is good to go over facts with critical eye.. evolution we can discuss, looking at the foundational facts and evidence, one at a time for you to go and check, agree or disagree with and return.. no pressure to accept it, you can decide for yourself, also no mocking etc of what you have to say.. .

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  Make Lemonade

  Kaik: I am not sure about any of this. It is an enjoyable to search for answers. I will look into those cultures you mentioned. It is interesting that carbon 14 dating can be checked by other dating methods. Tree rings, ice cores, and sediment deposits. The challenge is not that artifacts exist it is the reliability of the dating. People like Ken Ham are convinced that the dating methods are just wrong. People who are christians and scientist find no problem accepting modern dating methods. They have resolved the problem by believing that the Bible is not literal in Genesis. So this subject contains a variety of answers depending on who you get your answers from. The debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham was great. The parts I liked best were when they said: "I do not know" or similar.

  Please continue to share the specifics. These become a search on google for me that has yielded results. So far I have not kept up with all the information shared, but that does not pressure me. Little by little the issues are resolving themselves.
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  48

  The Apostasy Within

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the latest watchtower (july 15, 2014, page 14, paragraph 10) it says; today, jehovahs people are not often confronted with apostasy within the congregation.

  still, when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.. so, not often, but occasionally jws are exposed to apostasy within the congregation, and they are instructed to decisively reject it.

  as we all know, the vast majority of the apostasy they are exposed to comes from the governing body.. i am meeting up soon with an old friend from the 1970s who i havent seen for decades, who is still an active jw, and who would really like to hear what i think about things.

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  Make Lemonade

  Ultimate Axiom. Take a careful look at the 4/1/72 pg 197 ariticle you quoted. What is going on with the word prophet. Sometimes it is Prophet. Sometimes it is "Prophet". When refering to Ezekiel it is Prophet without quotes. When refering to modern day witnesses it is "Prophet". WHY?

  Please read the g93 3/22 Why So Many False Alarms? pg. 4

  Footnote: Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances however, did they presume to originate predictions "in the name of Jehovah." Never did they say, "These are the words of Jehovah." The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah's Witnesses, has said: "We have not the gift of prophecy." (January 1883, pg. 425) "Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible." (December 15, 1896, pg 306) The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah's spirit "does not mean those now serving as Jehovah's witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes." (May 15, 1950, pg 263) "The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)" February 15, 1981, page 19.

  If you search this site you will find abundant quotes from the WT. that support two positions at the same time. We are God's channel of communication, but we are not inspired prophets.

  One book on my list to read is by Don Cameron. Many have quoted him and I believe he deals thoroughly with this subject.
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  48

  The Apostasy Within

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the latest watchtower (july 15, 2014, page 14, paragraph 10) it says; today, jehovahs people are not often confronted with apostasy within the congregation.

  still, when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.. so, not often, but occasionally jws are exposed to apostasy within the congregation, and they are instructed to decisively reject it.

  as we all know, the vast majority of the apostasy they are exposed to comes from the governing body.. i am meeting up soon with an old friend from the 1970s who i havent seen for decades, who is still an active jw, and who would really like to hear what i think about things.

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  Make Lemonade

  Since your friend has been an active witness since the 70s, he should remember chapter 25 in the "Revelation Its Grand Climax At Hand!"(2006) book. The "two witnesses" are discussed in chapter 25 of the above book.

  Rev.11:3 And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.

  Since Jehovah's Witnesses are not Prophets, according to their own words. They are not inspired, and need to make corrections about their teachings,1914 generation, Rutherford with 1925, and "Children". Jehovah's Witnesses do claim to be "Prophets". Meaning they talk about their interpretation of Bible prophecy and when it does not come true they receive "new light". So Prophet and "Prophet" are two differant meanings in Wt. world.

  By their own words it is not scriptural to apply the "two witnesses" to Jehovah's Witnesses because they have not been a true prophet of God. You have to be accurate all the time to reach the catagory "true prophet of God".
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  126

  This is my first post

  by Make Lemonade in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.

  there are resources here that are deep.

  like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?

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  Make Lemonade

  One frustration of dealing with the legal system, is that each case has to stand on it's own, so to speak. You have to present reasoning specific to your case. What you know about other cases can not always be presented in your case. You could know testimony from the Australian hearings, Candace Conti, Menlo Park, and Compos cases. When you see contradictions in testimony it shows a legal strategy crafted for each individual case. Those are the rules that must be obeyed in court. However, an individual who has been exposed to this behavior is forced to see that something is wrong.

  When you point out these "contradictions" to witnesses, one gets a varied, but essentially dismissive response. "When you are dealing with the world, you have to act like the world". "Theocratic warfare", " I am a lawyer by day and an elder at night", etc..

  One goal being considered by me is to make a clear concise presentation that captures these contradicting positions and then ask a rhetorical question:

  Is this the way that God's channel of comunication should conduct itself on a world wide basis?
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  84

  Want to know why people accept evolution ?

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you have questions about or want to understand evolution?

  it is a difficult concept to communicate and so if it is not explained well , it is understandable that we would dismiss it.. i sincerely want to talk with people who want to learn more or see what all the fuss is about.

  we are all learning and increasing our knowledge all the time and it is good to go over facts with critical eye.. evolution we can discuss, looking at the foundational facts and evidence, one at a time for you to go and check, agree or disagree with and return.. no pressure to accept it, you can decide for yourself, also no mocking etc of what you have to say.. .

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  Make Lemonade

  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/1004/100412100017.htm

  Clovis hunter and gatherer culture thought to be 13,000 years ago. Ancient sites discovered in Arizona. I do not know the dating method used to determine this age yet. I have learned that the Carbon 14 method is believed to be accurate up to 50,000 years. So this is one specific culture that would exceed the age of Adam.
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  35

  Reverse Witnessing - Will NEVER work!

  by MissConfused in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  its been a while since i spoke up.

  after a lot of 'tactful' questioning, i have come under the conclusion that witnessing ttatt with dubs will never work.

  there is nothing called reasoning with them.

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  Make Lemonade
• 
  84

  Want to know why people accept evolution ?

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you have questions about or want to understand evolution?

  it is a difficult concept to communicate and so if it is not explained well , it is understandable that we would dismiss it.. i sincerely want to talk with people who want to learn more or see what all the fuss is about.

  we are all learning and increasing our knowledge all the time and it is good to go over facts with critical eye.. evolution we can discuss, looking at the foundational facts and evidence, one at a time for you to go and check, agree or disagree with and return.. no pressure to accept it, you can decide for yourself, also no mocking etc of what you have to say.. .

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  Make Lemonade

  Notes:

  Island Man: Cassiopeia project

  Snare&racket: look for future comments

  TD: hybrids

  jgnat: videos pg. 1 and 2. Burgess shale creatures. What creative day?

  Amelia Ashton: axolotls

  Bohm: "animal name fossil record" google search. (find funny symbol on your keyboard)

  Villagegirl: Hubble space photos. "none of anything I ever read in Science made me doubt the existence of God". Very cool. "Evolution male invention to be on top". Funny. Do not look into this further LOL

  Heaven: Lewis Black. What can I say? Shake head with a smile on your face.

  Gypsy Sam: PBS site

  AnnOMaley: blind watchmaker

  DuvanMuvan: "Beneficial mutations"

  Metatron: Article on Lamarck

  Redvip2000: Fossils show mutations...cause change...gradually over long periods of time"

  Cofty: Look up alleles, gene pool, genotype, phenotype, speciation

  check back to see if you missed anything. Research all the above and then pick out a book.
• 
  84

  Want to know why people accept evolution ?

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you have questions about or want to understand evolution?

  it is a difficult concept to communicate and so if it is not explained well , it is understandable that we would dismiss it.. i sincerely want to talk with people who want to learn more or see what all the fuss is about.

  we are all learning and increasing our knowledge all the time and it is good to go over facts with critical eye.. evolution we can discuss, looking at the foundational facts and evidence, one at a time for you to go and check, agree or disagree with and return.. no pressure to accept it, you can decide for yourself, also no mocking etc of what you have to say.. .

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  Make Lemonade

  Kaik: You said, "I would say the best way to observe evolution is to go the nature. Touring swamps, national parks, state and national forests, and wild life refuge".

  That is a tough assignment, but I accept. LOL. That is great advice. I really like that sort of thing. Slowly I have been gathering information on this subject. Your comments have been very helpful. I am in a much better position to narrow down books that will help me. I am very optimistic and excited to be exploring this subject. Being able to ask questions and then to receive so much information is wonderful.

  Disp. Hero: You are like many witnesses I have talked to recently about this subject. On the whole I cannot find a clear united belief. This observation is supported by the fact that the Wt. publications are themselves making contradictory statements. You can go back to the Photo Drama and see a slide depicting 7 7,000 year creative days. The subject of the destruction of Jurusalem being destroyed in 607 is anchored to 539 BCE. 1975 is still 6,000 years from Adam's creation. No wonder you and I are sorting thru this maze of fuzzy logic. When the Wt. writters fail to identify teachings that have proved to be false, it only makes the search for answers more difficult. When you see this pattern being repeated in several areas, it helps your mind to be free to look deeper. You and I both are benefiting from all this information.

  Cofty: Even though you are "over my head" in your understanding of this subject, I benefit from being introduced to thoughts that I can look into. Thanks

  Donny: Have not finished viewing the videos. So far they are helpful.
• 
  84

  Want to know why people accept evolution ?

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you have questions about or want to understand evolution?

  it is a difficult concept to communicate and so if it is not explained well , it is understandable that we would dismiss it.. i sincerely want to talk with people who want to learn more or see what all the fuss is about.

  we are all learning and increasing our knowledge all the time and it is good to go over facts with critical eye.. evolution we can discuss, looking at the foundational facts and evidence, one at a time for you to go and check, agree or disagree with and return.. no pressure to accept it, you can decide for yourself, also no mocking etc of what you have to say.. .

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  Make Lemonade

  Seems you all have been having a great time. I like that.

  Many things on this thread are really thought provoking. The idea of commonality. All living things have the same origen. Here is what has come up in my thoughts. It appears what is being discussed is similar to what Michael Crichton wrote about in his book Jurassic Park. The scientists used frog DNA to repair the DNA of a dinosaur. They got the DNA from a mosquito trapped in amber. That was science fiction, but it seems to me that being able to splice a part of a frog's DNA into a damaged dinosaur's DNA is related to commonality.

  Also, the commonality of mathmatics in living things. Fibonacci Numbers, Golden Ratio, and Fractal Geometry would also show a commonality.

  Am I on the right track?